User talk:Magnolia677/Archive 16

Toronto article

Thanks so much for reverting my edit. A great reminder of why I stopped bothering with wikipedia some months ago.

KOP

Hey, listen up! My edits are true. At KOP, the buildings are still know and referred to as the plaza and court. How do you even add the citations? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pullchain123 (talk • contribs) 20:20, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

@Pullchain123: Thanks for writing. Some links that may help are Wikipedia:Tutorial/Citing sources, Wikipedia:Citing sources, Wikipedia:References dos and don'ts, and Help:Introduction to referencing with VisualEditor/1. I'm not saying that what you added isn't true, it just needs a source for verification. This makes Wikipedia more reliable to its readers. Thanks, and feel free to ask for help. Magnolia677 (talk) 21:06, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Editing

Thanks for the help! Pullchain123 (talk) 23:00, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

I do not understand your authority to take off my photos. Why not take other ones off? Or make a judgement on quality. I will gladly accept an image that is better than mine to be featured. Zrudisin (talk) 01:10, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

@Zrudisin: Thank you for writing. I too take vacations, and when I do I often take photos which I later add to Wikipedia articles. You can see this at Hoohoo, West Virginia and many other places. But if--when I get home from vacation and go to add my picture to a Wikipedia article--I find there is already a picture of similar quality or detail, I don't add mine, because Wikipedia is not my personal photo gallery. Adding multiple photos to an article--all of which show the same general location--does not benefit Wikipedia's readers. Why not start a discussion on the article's talk page? Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 16:05, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Salem, Franklin County, Tennessee

Salem, Franklin County, Tennessee or Old Salem, Tennessee burnt down in 1873. Perhaps a fun project for you?Zigzig20s (talk) 14:14, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s: It may be a while, but I agree it would be fun to work on. I hope all is well. Cheers! Magnolia677 (talk) 15:58, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

It looks like there was a Presbyterian church.Zigzig20s (talk) 10:10, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

Photo

I have not donated vacation photos. I donated quality photographs with a release of copyright. This is the best way for me to contribute to wikipedia. If I am barred from displaying them in an appropriate article and they offer a unique choice for readers, then there is no reason for me to continue to donate images to the cause. Zrudisin (talk) 11:34, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

@Zrudisin: I deleted photos you added to a few articles because they were near duplicates of photos already there. If you feel yours were better quality, or better meet the criteria at MOS:IMAGES, just replace the existing photo with your photo. If another editor feels your photo is not an improvement, they may revert your edit. At that point, start a discussion on the talk page. Nobody--including me--has the last say on Wikipedia. Decisions are made by a consensus of editors. Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 12:18, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Photos

I appreciate this idea and understand your perspective. As a photographer, I thought it would be disrespectful to remove someone else's photograph in favor of mine. When I visit Wiki, I like to see visuals when I read and do not mind multiple images if it provides additional context. Giving up my copyright to these images is a very important decision, but I believe in the Wikipedia cause and want to contribute where appropriate. Zrudisin (talk) 00:47, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Second opinion

Hi. Is there a way to make this article sound less creepy please? Marcus B. Toney. I found his name while working on a NRHP-listed building, the Home for Aged Masons, and I did not expect to come to that... Do you think we should add Joiner's remarks in the lede please?Zigzig20s (talk) 00:17, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

User:Zigzig20s and I mention you at User talk:Zigzig20s#map requests, and I wonder if you could comment. I tried to ping you but didn't form it correctly. To put it in an extreme way, would you be willing to follow up on current and future "map requests" in Category:Wikipedia requested maps in Tennessee and in other states, where what is needed is for someone to edit "locmapin=Tennessee" into the infobox, not actually create a map? Zigzig20s and i have been cooperating a lot in other arenas, though we have some disagreement here. Feel free to comment or not. --Doncram (talk) 19:47, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

But also the Elkman Tool coordinates are sometimes wrong, so this requires a map expert, which I am not.Zigzig20s (talk) 19:50, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

I was trying to help map-loving editors figure out which articles to work on by adding map requests. I was doing this in total and utter good faith, to help everyone. I am no longer interested in discussing this topic further. Thanks.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:04, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Right, i did understand it was all in good faith, and I was meaning all in good faith too, but apparently this was too much. Oh well, rats. --Doncram (talk) 20:41, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s:@Doncram: Thanks for asking my opinion. I am a big fan of Zigzig20s and their huge contribution to Wikipedia, but the technical minutiae of Wikipedia is not Zigzig20s' strength and I have often helped out by uploading photos and such. I took a peek at some of the map requests and while most are fairly straightforward, they still need a bit of technical skill. For example, I added a map at Polk County Courthouse (Tennessee), and it needed both a map and a caption (I actually had to peek at Template:Infobox NRHP to see the exact syntax of the parameters). I also noticed Zigzig20s tagged Denmark, Tennessee with a map request a few years back, and this one would be very tricky map as it would need an infobox and the exact coordinates from GNIS. I wish I had more time to help, but real life has severely cut into my Wiki time over the past few months! Cheers! Magnolia677 (talk) 08:58, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

I finally figured out what User:Doncram wanted. It took me a minute. It's about writing the state in the infobox.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:52, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

I have removed some. It doesn't always work.Zigzig20s (talk) 19:23, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Santan, Arizona and other populated places revertedJdtrue63 (talk) 13:28, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Why did you revert the templates changes but not the changes in the article under Communities? I removed Santan from the template because according to the Arizona census report for 2010 Santan CDP was deleted. https://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/cph-2-4.pdf (page 21) Every state has one of these. All you have to do is google the state and 2010 census. This report lists changes (new CDP, deleted CDP, changes from town to city, name changes, etc.) If it isn't listed then I check the 2000 census report. I was having a problem with verifying a couple in Arkansas - couldn't verify the change, so wondering if they changed after the 2010 census. I forget what I put in the search bar, but I found this site - http://aedi.ualr.edu/arkansas-census-data/938-acs-four-page-citybycounty-profiles-2012-to-2016.html

I never use GNIS. I have found their information to be outdated. The entry for Santan that you linked to has an entry date of 1980.

@Jdtrue63: Thank you for responding. Because you don't leave edit summaries, it was difficult to understand what you were doing. GNIS still lists Santan as a populated place, so it should be kept. Thank you. Magnolia677 (talk) 14:07, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

I disagree. That GNIS entry is from 1980. The 2010 census says "Deleted CDPs: Maricopa (incorporated) and Santan (taken to form parts of Lower Santan Village and Stotonic Village CDP." You think it should stay because of a 30 year old entry? Clearly Santan no longer exists with that name. I didn't leave an edit summary because I figured anyone who cared could look up the census data like I did. Jdtrue63 (talk) 14:43, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

@Jdtrue63: You are absolutely correct. Other editors would indeed have to look up data to correct your edit, which I have done at Santan, Arizona. Magnolia677 (talk) 16:36, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Except that you did not correct my edit, you reverted my correction.Jdtrue63 (talk) 23:07, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Policy on lists of people?

Is there a formal policy on who can appear on lists of people? -- Zanimum (talk) 22:29, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

@Zanimum: Thanks for writing. There is a mishmash of policies, such as wp:listpeople, embedded lists, WP:Source list, and WP:USCITIES#Notable people. Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 23:09, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Most important, with regard to your edit waring at List of people from Brampton, a list of people must contain the names of people who actually live--or have lived--in the place mentioned in the article. This really is an important rule on Wikipedia, supporting your edits with a reliable source. Adding random names to a list because you personally have the inside scoop, only lessens the reliability of Wikipedia as a source. It also undermines the hard work of other editors who take the time to support their edits with a source. So, adding a redlinked name to a list of names, with no source to support their connection to Brampton, or adding a link to an article where the target article doesn't explicitly state (with a source) that the person is from Brampton; these edits are not acceptable. Moreover, edit warring over these sorts of shoddy edits, without leaving so much as an edit summary to explain your reason, is disruptive. That's why I left a warning on your talk page. You're an admin? Magnolia677 (talk) 23:48, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

RE: Alex Ozols

Hi, Magnolia677

I'm the original author of the Alex Ozols Wiki page at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Ozols. I got your notification that you'd like to begin the process of deleting the article. I went to Wiki's list of American Lawyers and saw a ton of lawyers on there with similar pages, and in a lot of instances less public notability, so I'm a bit confused? I really want to contribute to Wiki and I enjoy it a lot (it's hard to contribute new information, but I'm trying every couple of days), but it's a little dissuading when a long article you worked on is scheduled for deletion. I did read your note saying that Alex Ozols is successful, but not notable, which is where I'm having the confusion. In my eyes, many people are successful and don't warrant Wiki pages, because they're not in the public realm, they're just rich or innovative people in private sectors. Conversely, Alex Ozols is in the public a lot in California and on national news media. Aside from being on TV, he's been involved some historical cases with regards to records being set and their high-profile nature. I thought my sources for Alex were objective and large, so I don't think that's the problem. Is it solely because he's not a household name? I'd love to work with you on this augment the page with your guidance so I can learn how to properly contribute full articles. This isn't a fly by night thing for me, I enjoy this, but I did a lot if citation-research and what not for the page, so I'd love to find a way to appease your (and Wiki's) preferences.

As an aside, there are a lot of articles like this one on Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_American_Lawyer) that have been up for years with warnings or requests to enhance. Why are they allowed to stay published for so long, but my more thought out and thorough contribution isn't? I really wish we could IM or something so I could understand this whole process. lol. Sorry for being so needy.

Thank you! - IPlayNiceWithOthers IPlayNiceWithOthers (talk) 22:08, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

airport update

Please see both the Air Choice One Wikipedia page and our FAA data under our 'Airports' subsection, thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:337D:3070:8800:2C5D:27FC:20A7 (talk) 15:11, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

Categories

Hi. Do you know where I can ask the community to look at Category:Freedmen and Category:Former slaves please? They seem to overlap, but I am not a category expert. I am not sure where to ask...Zigzig20s (talk) 02:45, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s: They do look pretty similar. Post it at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion. Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 09:45, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Mount Vernon, Illinois help

First - thank you for taking the time to do some edits over there as I'm the only dedicated person keeping an eye (I think) and trying to improve it. At least it seems that way.

My first reaction upon seeing some of the undone edits was to get mad (sorry) because some I spent a lot of time tracking down. It seems not the ones you undid, but some of the others were a pain to research and get credible links to online. Anyway, I have some questions regarding the information about the radio stations. WP:USCITIES says to avoid strictly having a list, so I suppose there should be some exposition. I'll look that up on other pages unless you can help me with a link to best practices. I am curious why they shouldn't have the parent corporation and town/city served listed. Can you enlighten me there?

Otherwise, thanks again for the edits/updates/link to best practices (the cities page).Dirtvoyles (talk) 20:01, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

@Dirtvoyles: Thank you for writing, and for your efforts to improve the article. I trimmed the parent company of the radio station because it has little relevance to the article. Articles about cities tend to get bloated with information with only a thin connection to the city. Have a look at Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 20:06, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

@Magnolia677: Okay, I guess it's not directly related to the city. Fair enough. Can you point me to a place to get acquainted with best practices? As a newbie I want to help, but I also want to make sure someone doesn't have to come along and sweep up my poo. OH! I've started adding citations to the History section. Shouldn't that be Refimprove instead of 'none'? If not, can I have a little explanation of the difference? Keeping the original date is neither here nor there to me.Dirtvoyles (talk) 21:03, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

@Dirtvoyles: If you're adding references it should be a re-improve or just remove the tag if the issue is resolved. Feel free to change, probably my error. I will add a belated welcome to your talk page with many useful links. Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 21:08, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Hartwick College article

I am a rookie user of Wikipedia, trying to update this organization's page. In trying to create a "subcategory" of "Legacy and Retired Alumni" in the "Notable Alumni" section, Magnolia677 has directed me to "please gain consensus on talk page before creating this category."

I'm not sure 1) on which Talk page to do so, 2) IF this is how you do so (I'm winging it right now), or 3) how many people would constitute a consensus.

Can anyone provide any thoughts on the matter...not the least of which is if I'm even in the right place for this?

Many thanks in advance, Butterfield24

@Butterfield24: Thanks for writing. I noticed you were trying to create a unique category at Hartwick College and reverted your edit. Wikipedia has style guides for different types of articles, and in my edit summary at Hartwick College I suggested you work within the parameters of Wikipedia:College and university article advice. Typically, university and school articles have a section called "noted people" or "notable alumni", or something like that. I'm not sure why you want to create a section called "legacy and retired alumni". Who cares if an alumni is working, retired, dead? If a reader wants to know more about that person they can just click on the link to the person's article. And what is a "legacy alumni"? It would be best to propose your idea on the Hartwick College talk page, and get the input of other editors. Thanks! Magnolia677 (talk) 20:23, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

@Butterfield24: Ah...you're a paid editor. That complicates things. Please take a moment to read Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. I'll leave a message on your talk page too. Thanks! Magnolia677 (talk) 20:28, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

The 88 counties that make up the State of Ohio.

I just want to inform you that Anonymous user 184.54.254.54 was the perpetrator who added the website “http://www.ohiotownships.org/township-websites” on Miami County, Ohio on July 25, 2016 so I clearly figured that this person was clearly intending to do the exact same thing to Ohio’s remaining 87 counties so please be aware that all of Ohio’s 88 counties now have this website under “Townships”. Now if Anonymous user 184.54.254.54 had never added this website on Townships of Miami County, Ohio on July 25, 2016, this clearly would have never been a major issue on each of Ohio’s 88 counties, simple as that! NJRobbie (talk) 03:31, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Need your opinion

Hey there Magnolia677. I bet your surprised to know I will be heading to the mountain state soon. BUT I have thoughts......MANY of the NRHP places in WV lack any internal pics of the said building. It JUST SO HAPPENS I have quite a few. However, many of the paces I go to are never ever going to appear in Better Homes and Gardens. They are burned out vandalized hulks. I was wondering if adding interior pics would help? Also, for those buildings that are in use or great shape, what about internal pics of those as well? Your thoughts would be appreciated. Many ThanksCoal town guy (talk) 13:04, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

@Coal town guy: Glad you're doing well. I think internal pictures would be relevant to any NRHP article. I know that galleries are to be avoided in articles, but I actually find that galleries improve the look of some articles articles. I'd really like to track down a lot of the places Kennedy visited and get some shots, like here and here in Hinton. Cheers! Magnolia677 (talk) 14:01, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

I have always wanted to see this location hereCoal town guy (talk) 14:08, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

@Coal town guy: You read my mind. A few years back I added a link to that very picture at Ona, West Virginia. I've looked on Google Maps for that post office, but I think it was torn down when the highway was improved. Magnolia677 (talk) 14:15, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Met the Mayor of Bramwell, a swell lady, she showed me the tree and street Kennedy spoke at. Its just at the end of the historic district near the masonic building. The Ona pic has spoken to me deeply as I always was curious if that lady in the window has a nameCoal town guy (talk) 14:17, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

West Virginia is a magical place. In Smithers, West Virginia, you'll find not a bit of garbage on the streets and signs all over telling people not to litter or play loud music. You can see one here. Magnolia677 (talk) 14:20, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

The magic is hereCoal town guy (talk) 14:22, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

I was in nearby Sophia and Lego. Impossible to describe the beauty, or the genuine kindness of the people. I wanted to get a picture in Odd, West Virginia, but never made it. And who names a place Superior Bottom?? Magnolia677 (talk) 14:36, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Changes to Winona Page

I live in Winona. The school consolidation has been in the newspaper several times. Winona Times doesn't keep the articles online. As for the court house clock, there was discussion on it on WONA, and it has since disappeared. I have contacted city hall with no avail in finding what happened to it. TimeLord15 (talk) 02:39, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Hi, TimeLord15. Magnolia may be neck deep in dirty diapers, so let me give you a couple general tips. First, an encyclopedia is tertiary, so you are not allowed to make edits here based solely on your personal knowledge. Every single thing you add to Wikipedia must be paraphrased from a reliable published source. Now for the better news! That source does not have to be online. You can go down to the library, pull a copy of the Times that verifies what you added and Magnolia removed; paraphrase what the story says, being careful not to add any personal interpretation or embellishments from your personal knowledge, and cite the story using Template:cite news. Fill in as many parameters in the template as you can, and include a short direct quote from the article in the appropriate parameter that best summarizes the story. Place the completed template in between the reference markup after the last period in your edit. It will look something like this: <ref>{{cite news|many parameters separated by vertical lines}}</ref>. Hope this is helpful. John from Idegon (talk) 05:55, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Campbellsville, Giles County, Tennessee

Hi. Would you be interested in creating this article please?Zigzig20s (talk) 06:05, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s: See Campbellsville, Tennessee. Tiny hamlet with a strong community organization, probably all ancestors of former residents. They'd likely appreciate a presence on Wikipedia. You can see the remnants of long-abandoned businesses on Google Streetview. Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 14:21, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you!Zigzig20s (talk) 22:05, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Betty Ford - William O. Douglas

First of all, it is well known that Betty Ford was an alcoholic and addicted to opioid analgesics, dating at least from the early 1960's. It is hardly unsourced, as I obtained the information and the reference source (FlBogs) from her Wikipedia article. As for "harsh" edit, it was meant merely to demonstrate the longstanding personal hypocrisy with which Republicans approach Democrats' qualifications to hold, or to continue to hold, public office.John Paul Parks (talk) 14:50, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Concho County, Texas

If you click on the link to Journey to Shiloh, which I inserted, you will find that the movie featured a group that called itself the "Concho County Comanches," which I happen to think is a rather notable reference.John Paul Parks (talk) 14:53, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Schuylkill County, Pennsylvania

The data in the introduction was incorrect(and also un-sourced). On July 2 I edited it to provide CORRECT information. I did not source it as it had not been sourced originally anyway. You then reverted it. Now it is INCORRECT and UNSOURCED instead of CORRECT and UNSOURCED. Avvocato48 (talk) 11:25, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

@Avvocato48: How do you know it is either correct or incorrect if there is no source? Was your version original research? Thank you. Magnolia677 (talk) 13:24, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

401 photo

For the source of the greenspace over the highway, any reference with the words 'windsor essex parkway' or 'herb gray parkway' has this info. Check refs 146, 148, 150, 196.

Also the external link to the site is a good source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_401#External_links / http://www.hgparkway.ca/

And Google Maps clearly shows green space on top of the highway to (although under construction) https://www.google.ca/maps/@42.2404064,-83.0096939,418m/data=!3m1!1e3

Hope this helps!

@Haljackey: The only use of the word "greenspace" at Ontario Highway 401 is in your caption. As well, in the external link here that you referred me to, the word "greenspace" is not used. Could you please clarify the wording of the caption, and add a non-Wikipedia source? Thanks. Magnolia677 (talk) 15:35, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

@Magnolia677: what other word should be used? They are tunnels with parks on top of the highway. Parks? Parkland? I thought Greenspace would be best. Public space? Feel free to edit the caption to change this however you want.

Ironton, OH

I just had an edit deleted for lack if citations as I was collecting citations for it. Thanks! Zetlaux (talk) 23:58, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

FYI, I left him a message on the problems of that approach on his talk. John from Idegon (talk) 01:32, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Incomplete DYK nomination

Hello! Your submission of Template:Did you know nominations/Val Gagné, Ontario at the Did You Know nominations page is not complete; if you would like to continue, please link the nomination to the nominations page as described in step 3 of the nomination procedure. If you do not want to continue with the nomination, tag the nomination page with {{db-g7}}, or ask a DYK admin. Thank you. DYKHousekeepingBot (talk) 08:23, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Mobile Bay

Hi, I noticed that you reverted my edits on Mobile Bay. No major information was added, as I only reworded what was already there and added subsections to the page to make it more organized. Was there any reason for my edits to be reverted?

Redditaddict69 (talk) 12:39, 5 July 2018 (UTC)Redditaddict69

@Redditaddict69: Yes, and I reverted your edit again. Please add a source to support your edit. Thank you. Magnolia677 (talk) 13:02, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

--- Sorry for the unsourced parts–was unsure what you were referring to. Nothing is unsourced anymore.

Redditaddict69 (talk) 13:56, 5 July 2018 (UTC)Redditaddict69

Edits

Did not mean to trying not to, still new to this... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Loleris the unknown (talk • contribs) 14:06, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Fort Bend County, Texas

Just reminded that my revision on Fort Bend County to add more recent history was undone. While I admit I did not provide reliable sources, I do think that Fort Bend's recent history was more than just about voting issues. Just added some new information with citations added. Let's see if this passes muster... Stantheman8609 (talk) 02:20, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Elms Court

Hi. The locmapin is not working here, in case you're interested...Zigzig20s (talk) 16:56, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

McComb, Mississippi population

I had already double checked the 12,790 population against the census data and had found it to be correct. I was not aware of some wikipedia rule banning references other than to the US Census for populations. I had moved on to the US Census reference that was already given, now [8], if you have not reverted my change again. I was double checking the other numbers against that reference. It says the US Census URL is a dead URL, but I was able to use it, although it is a little cumbersome to use. I could not get the archival URL to work correctly. Any suggestions? Jay Jor (talk) 23:34, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

edit to Donavon Webster's page

Everything available about Running the Sahara mentions Charlie Engle. Having him not be mentioned is like not mentioning George Lucas when talking about Star Wars or Michael Jordon when talking about NBA Allstars. I am happy to provide a reference. Which reference would you prefer? Thanks for your help. Let me know what you feel is most appropriate.

Options: https://www.runnersworld.com/runners-stories/a20800083/charlie-engle-of-running-the-sahara/ http://www.runningthesahara.com/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0481222/ https://library.creativecow.net/article.php?author_folder=moll_james&article_folder=running_the_sahara&page=1

There are other options, as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FactsMatter (talk • contribs) 20:16, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

@FactsMatter: I haven't edited that article since last October. Lots has happened in the world since then. Magnolia677 (talk) 20:22, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Notability

I'm not sure where you got that idea from, but the clear consensus across Wikipedia is that an individual needs a WP article to be included as a 'notable' resident. Otherwise, anyone with a mention in a local newspaper could be included. Thanks. ‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia ^ᐐT₳LKᐬ 15:25, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

WP:SPORTSPERSON

Main page: Wikipedia:Notability (sports)

A sportsperson is presumed to be notable if the person has actively participated in a major amateur or professional competition or won a significant honor and so is likely to have received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject.--Asher196 (talk) 15:42, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

WP:USCITIES is pretty clear that the person needs an article to be added to the notable people section of a US settlement article, unless the person is clearly notable but just doesn't yet have an article (like a senator or pro athlete). Magnolia677 (talk) 20:18, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Yes, WP:USCITIES is pretty clear. "To be included in a list of notable people, individuals must still meet the notability requirements per WP:PEOPLE. A fast and easy way to establish this is if they already have an article written about them on Wikipedia, since it would have never been approved, or would have been deleted, if they did not meet notability requirements. This is not the sole rationale for inclusion, since some people who might meet notable standards may not have an article, but it is a quick reference"--Asher196 (talk) 15:17, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Asher196, whereas that may be true, what is true beyond any doubt is that a contested change to an article requires consensus, which pretty obviously you do not have. John from Idegon (talk) 16:49, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Can someone tell me what article this pertains to? John from Idegon (talk) 16:50, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Magnolia677: I hope you don't mind that I am talk page lurking, but we have some similar interests and this is a way to learn a few Wiki-things. I am concerned, as are many other editors, about the notable people sections turning into repositories of dross. I have a similar problem with a notable person, not with a city, but with a section of Glenwood Cemetery (Houston, Texas). One notable person without a page, George Hermann, donated money and land to establish a large public park and a hospital in Houston. I intend to write an article for him, but not now. I think a reasonable work-around is posting two inline citations to sources which would satisfy notability for the purpose of writing an article about him. Provided there are two RSs with non-trivial references for notability, and one to establish a significant duration of residence, would this satisfy the requirement for a notable person? Cheers, Oldsanfelipe (talk) 17:08, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

John, At this point I'm ok with what user El cid has done. I was more concerned with the idea that a person isn't considered notable unless they have a Wikipedia article.--Asher196 (talk) 19:21, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

I recall going through all the policies once about the addition of non-notable names to a list, and my head was spinning by the end of it. Most editors of city articles agree that inclusion in a notable people list requires a Wiki article, and ideally a source supporting that the person spent a significant amount of time living in the place, but the inclusion of someone who does not have an article is still ok, but may be challenged, and a consensus should then be reached about inclusion or not. My feeling is write the article and there's no fuss. There are quite a few references to Hermann on Wikipedia, and a previous article about him was deleted for copy-and-paste infractions. I found a few sources about Hermann without looking too hard, see [1] and [2]. That Glenwood Cemetery article could do with a trim. Everyone is notable in cemetery and prison articles. Cheers! Magnolia677 (talk) 19:53, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Asher196, in its simplest form here, notability is the state of qualifying to have an article. In abstract, any legit redlink should be able to be in a notables list. However, since notable lists are embedded in, and somewhat ancillary to, an article on a specific topic that has little to do with people, adding unlinked names creates a weight issue. My rule of thumb is, if you can show unambiguous notability and verify the tie to the subject of the article in one or two references, keep the redlink. If not, remove as "rv nn, WP:WTAF". Pretty much this means the redlink must be to an individual who can be shown to meet a SNG rather than GNG. Why? The topic of the article is the community (or the school, or the company). It isn't Roger Foo. So spending time debating the notability of Roger Foo is an off topic waste of time. It's my contention that a decision on whether Roger Foo was notable that was arrivied at on "Talk:Anywhere, Anyplace" wouldn't even be a binding consensus anyway. The only way to establish a consensus on the notability of a person via GNG is to WTAF. John from Idegon (talk) 21:37, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Second opinion

Do you think Telfair Hodgson is boring? I was told I created "boring" articles two days ago and I am still upset. I thought I created beautiful articles...Zigzig20s (talk) 20:04, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s: This is an encyclopedia, not pulp fiction. That's a great article! Magnolia677 (talk) 20:46, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Apparently it was an issue with the DYK hook (not hooky enough). But there is also some beef about the "wide audience", which is now supposed to exclude our American readers for some reason. Have you had issues with DYK in the past? It is already quite cumbersome to do the QPQ, but if the rules are unclear and arbitrary, that's even worse.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:04, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s: I left a comment there. I actually think the hook will get readers thinking. The distinguished head of the university was--gasp--a Confederate. I have a pending DYK right now, and because it was my 6th DYK I had to do a DYK review, which was not pretty. Something I found a lot of work was taking an article to "good article" status. I did it just once at Lake Ontario Ordnance Works and it was worthwhile, but a ton of work. Magnolia677 (talk) 21:10, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Did anyone actually say the article was boring? Or just the nomination/hook? And no, there's no "beef", simply a requirement to adhere to a rule which has been overlooked all to often lately. And if you do feel victimized for whatever reason, just look at today's ERRORS reports. No-one is picking on you. Well, not that I'm aware of. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:14, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

We've now moved on from that misguided assessment and we are trying to clarify/improve the DYK requirements. See the reply I published on my talkpage. It's hard (virtually impossible) to predict what is interesting to a wide audience.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:25, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

I'm glad you've moved on so quickly. The requirement is fine, it's the sloppy review process which needs improvement, and that will never happen. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:36, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

We could have several reviewers just for the hookiness of the hook.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:37, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Or we could accept that boring hooks only make it to the queues relatively infrequently and deal with each one on a piecemeal basis, using a broader audience of Wikipedians to decide on a remedy. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:45, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Salisbury

Magnolia677,

I will make an effort to abide by the Manual of Style for any future changes to the Salisbury Wikipedia page. Please understand that I'm trying to make improvements to a page which I believe very poorly reflects the city. I plan to make a variety of improvements to this particular page, because I'm a local and I have a strong interest in promoting and supporting the city, and providing an interesting Wikipedia-browsing experience. I would appreciate if you did not single out my edits for heightened and unusual scrutiny as I look to make improvements to the page; these changes will include improvements to the body of text as well. Honestly, it's not as if the current page is a masterpiece. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kharris0317 (talk • contribs) 23:17, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

I appreciate the improvements you made today to the Salisbury Wikipedia page. I'm currently working on a new page, "Architecture of Salisbury" and "Historic Districts in Salisbury" which I believe will be informative. Kharris0317 (talk) 00:00, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

Picture

Hi. Do you think this picture is copyright-free please?Zigzig20s (talk) 11:23, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s: I don't think it can be uploaded. The image is undated, but the cut-off for public domain in the US is 1923, and he lived several years after that. I looked for another image of him but no luck. Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 10:19, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Oh I see. I always forget that it's 1923. By the way, are you interested in getting a co-credit for Template:Did you know nominations/Telfair Hodgson Jr. please? Otherwise I will just drop it if no one else is interested...Zigzig20s (talk) 10:23, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s: No, I'm good thanks. Cheers! Magnolia677 (talk) 10:27, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

No problem. By the way, we need a map for Wyolah Plantation if you're interested. Thanks!Zigzig20s (talk) 21:29, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Mass deletion

Its sad that you felt the need to revert so many of my contributions yesterday in such a heavy-handed way. In 9 years of contributing to Wikipedia, during which time I have enhanced and corrected countless articles I always tried to refrain from deleting another contributors well-intentioned submissions. It makes me wonder how worthwhile it is to participate in an enterprise where one persons good-faith efforts can so easily be sabotaged by another.Plucas58 (talk) 09:09, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

@Plucas58: Thank you for writing. Wikipedia does not allow original research. Adding very specific details to hundreds of articles, without any sources to support the information, makes Wikipedia less reliable as a source to its readers, and undermines the hard work of other editors. Magnolia677 (talk) 11:33, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: Baird Reunion

Hello Magnolia677. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Baird Reunion, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: has book coverage and claims to be the oldest event of its kind, needs further discussion. Use WP:AFD. Thank you. SoWhy 09:14, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

About Baird Reunion

Hi Magnolia677
In my opinion, and given the broader context, I think we should be kind and gentle with that new editor, despite their soapboxing, and look into whether they have written good encyclopedia content.
Pete AU aka --Shirt58 (talk) 10:53, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

@Shirt58: This editor has created articles with made up sources, or no sources, and has spammed many articles with unsourced content. I'm also concerned with edits such as the following, which was added without a source to List of Freedmen's towns:

A part of the larger freedom colony phenomenon of those targeted by Western colonialism’s racialized genocide, enslavement and other human rights abuses, resisting and creating the original “safe spaces” to protect themselves from such atrocities, these practices have existed since the very beginnings of Western Colonialism and its Atlantic Slave Trade.

The palenques in Colombia, the quilombos and mocambos in Brazil, Maroons in Jamaica, “freedom countries” like Haiti, Liberia, Eritrea and Ethiopia, and the numerous “freedmen settlements” across the North American continent, as well as such communities throughout Africa, Australia and its nearby islands, and Asia, exist as testament to the resistance people targeted by Western White Supremacy’s racism immediately practiced.

Their contested deletion at Talk:Baird Reunion also concerns me:

This article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because... the “black” family” and its reunions, particularly in racialized cultures of White Supremacy (separating people into categories, calling such categories “colors,” and then “doing something to them” [Toni Morrison]), is most certainly of historical importance, as it demonstrates resistance towards colonialization, racialization (i.e. racism), particularly as it pertains to families branded “black.” The phenomenon of having families ripped apart is a Western colonial phenomenon that dates back to the beginning of Western colonialism, and as such, the resistance to that by the people targeted for such human rights abuses - creating family reunions - is thus historically important. The fact that there is no page on the “black” family speaks to the institutional and systemically colonized, “white” supremacist lens rampant throughout Western culture and its resulting societal structure, manifested here. Do not delete this page, do research on “racism of the narrative” and what story gets told, and by whom, and for whom, to better understand the issues at play here. Begin work to understand why a page on the “black” family, and the “black” reunion is both historical and factual, no matter how much it disrupts the colonial -or post colonial- narrative. If this phenomenonon isn’t covered by “sanctioned” sources, then of course there will be many personal sources that only can corroborate, how else could it be otherwise? We can’t sit around and wait until the NYT or the WaPo feels like covering families, events, and other such cultural phenomenon it brands “not-white” and “black,” it’s been over a century already.

Or this contested deletion at Talk:Flack-Council-Coleman Reunion:

This article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because... it is of national and international importance - the second family reunion created by people branded “black” in a culture of Western White Supremacy. Wikipedia needs to do a complete internal review for “implicit bias” and outright “racism of the lens and narrative.” The fact that this page is being put up for deletion shows a complete lack of understanding of the history and its context. Academically this is called “White Supremacy of the narrative” as any article that doesn’t fit the “lens” of the narrative of “white|ness” is attacked and targeted. See also the pages for freedom colonies and freedom colonies such as Shankleville, Blackdom, Vado, which have been targeted because editors have no context or understanding of the historic references. There needs to be a panel/discussion/lightning talks on this - it contributes to the replication of institutional and systemic White Supremacy racism, affecting what narratives/articles get told/space and those targeted for censureship. #SystemicRacismInWikipedia could be the title of the talk/panel/investigation

Yikes. Magnolia677 (talk) 14:19, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Hi again. Oh dear. I missed all that. Or to be more honest with myself, I didn't look into that when I should have. I'm drafting a longer response. Pete AU aka --Shirt58 (talk) 09:52, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

I am in touch with this new editor in person. They're primarily interested in covering historic communities, and although the style of argumentation is not Wikipedia standard, I don't think it's meant in an ill way, and is as much a reflection of frustration with the lack of traditional published sources, which is indeed part of a larger structural problem in society - not a problem actually rooted in Wikipedia, but something that makes writing about certain topics on marginalized communities more difficult here. African American family reunions are a real notable cultural topic in general. I do think it is a unnecessary to give "final warnings" for things like unsourced content, when the article is already at AfD and having its sources evaluated there.--Pharos (talk) 10:05, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

@Pharos: Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a soapbox or place to right great wrongs. A consensus of editors has agreed that original research is not permitted on Wikipedia. If a particular topic has received little publication in reliable sources--for whatever reason--that is not Wikipedia's concern, and it does not change the rules. There are other outlets for original research, such as blogs or Facebook. This editor continues to add original research to various articles, as well as their own harsh personal opinions about historical wrongs. This is not permitted. Would you agree that Shankleville, Texas will need significant cleanup? Poorly sourced, highly biased, and off topic edits contribute little to Wikipedia's readers, and undermine the hard work of editors who follow Wikipedia's guidelines. Thank you for writing. Magnolia677 (talk) 11:23, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

I agree with you that Shankleville, Texas needs significant cleanup, but also note that the article has a couple dozen references now, and had none before this user started to edit. New Wikipedians are not born fully-armed like Athena, they have to be allowed to develop over time - the same thing happened with you and me, as we found the right voice for the collaborative encyclopedia genre. And I do think that this can be a valuable voice too.--Pharos (talk) 12:39, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

@Pharos: Even as a new editor I never added original content and fake sources, and then edit warred to keep my original content and fake sources from being reverted. Look at the junk sources added at List of Freedmen's towns to try to support the following:

"A part of the larger freedom colony phenomenon of people targeted by Western colonialism’s racialized genocide, enslavement and other human rights abuses, resisting and creating the original “safe spaces” to protect themselves from such terrorism, these practices have existed since the very beginnings of Western Colonialism and its Atlantic Slave Trade. The palenques in Colombia, the quilombos and mocambos in Brazil, Maroons throughout the Caribbean, Latin America, the Great Dismal Swamp region of North America and South Asia, “freedom countries” like Haiti, Liberia, Eritrea and Ethiopia, and the numerous "freedmen settlements" across the North American continent, as well as such other communities throughout Africa and Australia exist as testament to the resistance people targeted by Western White Supremacy’s racism immediately practiced."

"Over 550 of such communities have been identified in the US state of Texas alone by the Texas Freedom Colonies Project of Texas A&M University professor Andrea Roberts' pioneering research. This practice has been indentified as being far more common than has been previously reported, raising issues of historical accuracy, diversity and neglect in the larger disciplines of urban planning, archeology, and preservation. Many of these communities continue to struggle with issues of environmental racism, gentrification, and lack of municipal resource support to this day." Magnolia677 (talk) 14:32, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

@Pharos: I hope you don't mind a page stalker weighing in. Although I started Wikipedia four or five years ago, I was mostly inactive until late in 2017. It hasn't been that long since I knew nothing, though I am confident that I am following the cardinal rules pretty well. New editors do not always receive the support they need to improve as editors. At the same time, they need to understand and identify original research. I followed a few of their pages and did two or three light edits, but thought it was unfair for me to make aggressive edits. I am well-versed in Texas history, especially about Houston. They may not want my help if they see my article creations, which include biographies of a few large slaveholders. These are the people who ruled ante bellum Texas. How can we not write about them? On the other hand, I stumble into many articles about Freedmen's Town in Houston, and I just saw an article with content on freedmen's town in Dallas. If they are interested in contacting me on my talk page, I can give them a list of articles which may be of interest that would meet Wikipedia for RS. My other suggestion is JSTOR. Some libraries have subscriptions to JSTOR, with either free access for in-house use, and if you're lucky, some give remote access to account holders. There are many opportunities to improve these Houston-related articles on African American history, some of which are not lacking good sources. Sincerely, Oldsanfelipe (talk) 15:37, 19 July 2018 (UTC) Radio silence. Oldsanfelipe (talk) 17:41, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

This is no masterpiece, but wouldn't you agree that Ernest O. Smith adds something to Wikipedia? Oldsanfelipe (talk) 14:17, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

@Oldsanfelipe: He accomplished much. Thanks for sharing. Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 15:04, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

@Oldsanfelipe: I also looked high and low for an image of Ernest O. Smith to add to the article, but the only image I found was likely still under copyright. Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 18:26, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for looking, but the image will be a challenge. Anyway, I decided to write this article before this thread started. My research for the Adele Briscoe Looscan article lead to a general history of the local library system, which led to EO Smith. My point is why stretch the envelope on GNG and RS when there are many opportunities to use available RS to write about remarkable people, organizations, and events. Cheers, Oldsanfelipe (talk) 19:15, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

A sigh of relief, Orgas, West Virginia has its naming origin

Hey there, I found a WV DOT document that beautifully documents the naming origin or Orgas, West Virginia....GLAD I was able to find it. I shall be there in a few weeksCoal town guy (talk) 13:48, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

@Coal town guy: Take lots of pictures. I know you'll agree that central West Virginia is spectacularly beautiful. Magnolia677 (talk) 11:04, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

@Magnolia677: Indeedy, I do believe I see with my right eye, pics that could prove to present day she was a coal town...Coal town guy (talk) 13:42, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Happy Valley-Goose Bay

Happy Valley-Goose Bay demographic data has not been edited on its Wiki page to reflect the most current information. In Canada, there is a census collected every 5 years. The latest data would be from 2016, not 2006 - as much has changed in Happy Valley-Goose Bay since 2006. Information for the 2016 demographic data can be found on the link that was cited. Editing the page is to ensure the newest demographic information is available to people who access the page. If that is not the right way to edit it, please let me know how as I thought I removed any reference to it being data from 2006. --205.193.94.40 (talk) 14:56, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

@205.193.94.40: I have already responded on your talk page. Magnolia677 (talk) 14:59, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

@Magnolia677: Why do you need to revert information that is cited, and is the most current? Where is the error in editing?

July 2018

I was a little taken aback by your snark on Beyond My Ken's page, and thought I'd better take this warning to your own page. If you believe personal attacks and belligerence aren't actual "concerns", I hope you will nevertheless avoid them in the future, or you may find yourself sanctioned rather than merely "admonished". Bishonen | talk 23:39, 20 July 2018 (UTC).

@Bishonen: No need to concern yourself. My personal attacks are pretty innocuous and occur with great infrequency. If you'd actually like to be of some assistance, please keep a watch on Bellows Falls, Vermont. Cheers, and thanks for writing. Magnolia677 (talk) 23:45, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Bellows Falls, Vermont. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Points to note:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made;
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:10, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Please review WP:BRD. When your Bold edit has been Reverted by another editor, the next step, if you continue to think the edit is necessary, is to Discuss it on the article talk page, not to re-revert it, which is the first step to edit warring. During the discussion, the article remains in the status quo ante.

I have repeatedly asked you to discuss your edits on the talk page of Bellows Falls, Vermont, and you have repeatedly ignored me. Here are the salient points:

• The article has been in the current state for 1.5 years, which makes your drive-by "cleanup" edits "Bold" edits. Per BRD, you must discuss them when reverted
• MOS is not a policy, and is not mandatory, It is subject to editorial consensus.
• Edit warring to enforce MOS has been repeatedly and specifically ruled by the Arbitration Committee as not an allowable reason to edit war.

I am willing to discuss all the edits, but you must first start the discussion, and make your arguments on the article talk page, and not in edit summaries or on my talk page.

Please discuss your proposed edits on the article talk page, as I have requested.

Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:14, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

BRD is an essay which outlines "an optional method of reaching consensus". BRD is neither policy nor a guideline, and I have chosen not to use it. However, I have been explicit in my edit summaries at Bellows Falls, Vermont, which have mentioned WP:EL (a guideline), MOS:IMAGES (Manuel of Style), and WP:LINKFARM (policy). Please do not use the BRD essay as a reason to revert the good-faith edits of others, particularly edits with are inline with policy and guidelines. You have reverted edits with either no edit summary or a vacuous one, and this is not acceptable. Please stop your disruptive editing and discuss your reasons on the article talk page. Magnolia677 (talk) 00:25, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia works by consensus. When edits are disputed, only consensus can determine what ia to be done. The only way to determine what the consensus of editors is, is to have a discussion about it. Dueling edit summaries are not a discussion. Please start a discussion on the talk page about your proposed edits to the article, and I will be happy to respond. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:49, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

BTW, I suggest you add an infobox to your user page: This editor does not follow BRD. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:51, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

@Beyond My Ken: For policies and guidelines, consensus has already been reached. That's how they became a policy or guideline. I will continue to improve the article in line with these policies and guidelines. If you continue to revert these edits using vacuous edit summaries, and without gaining consensus first on the talk page, I will report you. You were last blocked for edit warring in April. Surely you must have learned something. Magnolia677 (talk) 00:58, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Nope, I'm still just as pig ignorant as I ever was or will be. But that's neither here nor there, you're totally wrong about policy and guidelines. What they say is set by consensus (for the most part), but how they are applied is open to editorial consensus and administrative discretion, especially in the case of guidelines, which are, literally guidelines and neither mandatory nor inflexible.

In any case, all this palaver on my talk page and yours is time that could have been put into discussing your edits on the article talk page, which is where a consensus could be found. Please don;t ping me to your page again. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:13, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

"Please don;t ping me to your page again." Oh my. Magnolia677 (talk) 01:19, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Vandalism?? You're killing me . .

I am working hard to improve and streamline, and add pertinent information, to several county pages. I wonder at your definition of "vandalism". Agreed, I could add more source refs, which I will more diligently in the future (thank you for pointing out the lack of refs). Cheers - --Spray787 (talk) 21:41, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

@Spray787: Thank you for writing. I think the "ONLY WARNING" I left on you talk page was the first time I've ever left an "only warning". Clearly you would like to discuss this more with me and the many watchers of my talk page, who work tirelessly to maintain the integrity of Wikipedia. Please stop adding huge, unsourced edits to the history sections of so many US county and city articles. Also, please stop pasting the exact same huge, unsourced edit into so many US county and city articles. Doing so makes Wikipedia less reliable to its readers, and undermines the hard work of so many other editors. Thank you again. Magnolia677 (talk) 23:09, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

@Spray787:: I don't have the time for details right now, but I have visited two of the articles you have edited. Later I will provide detailed comments which will aim to be constructive at those talk pages. I disagree that your work can be described as vandalism because I see no evidence of bad intent. I would characterize what I saw as unhelpful edits. In the meantime, I hope you will wait for assistance before making more of these large edits. Wikipedia is in general very forgiving of errors in editing. There are countless editors who are experts at correcting errors and making improvements to formatting. What Wikipedia asks of all editors, regardless of their level of experience is verifiable content. (Also, neutral point of view and no original research.) The practical effect of this policy is that you should provide reliable sources for everything you write. As Magnolia677 has said, unsourced or poorly sourced content is difficult to identify and correct after the fact. For what it's worth, I'll make myself available. I am very good at sourcing content, even if there are countless editors who are better. Sincerely, Oldsanfelipe (talk) 11:15, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

@Oldsanfelipe: - When using Twinkle, the "only warning" for adding unsourced content defaults to a vandalism warning. I hope this helps. Magnolia677 (talk) 11:39, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. Oldsanfelipe (talk) 17:28, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

		The Barnstar of Diplomacy
		Thank you for your fortitude!Zigzig20s (talk) 18:09, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s: Thank you! Magnolia677 (talk) 18:16, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Illinois State Capitol

While being one of 200 may not appear notable, this is a program that celebrates 200 architectural works in Illinois, corresponding with the bicentennial of the state in 2018 - hence the selection of 200 sites that are of significant architectural interest - the State Capitol considered this notable enough to receive a plaque honoring this consideration. Thank you for considering re-instating this edit.

From the announcement of the program: "To commemorate the Bicentennial of Illinois’ statehood in 2018, AIA Illinois presents the 200 GreatPlaces in our state, which have been selected by a state-wide committee of architects, local officials and other organizations, in an effort to showcase the best of Illinois. This list of Great Places builds upon a 2007 AIA Illinois project that named 150 Great Places in Illinois, to honor the 150th anniversary of the founding of the American Institute of Architects. The selections emphasize various types of design creations, including works by urban planners, landscape architects, local craftspeople and builders. Selections emphasize a collective sense of place created in cities and towns, and in structures designed by individual architects. Spanning the entire period of human settlement in Illinois, the list contributes a strong historical dimension to understanding the vast power of our shared architectural culture." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Funarchitect (talk • contribs) 17:24, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

@Funarchitect: This appears to be a trivial award. I did a Google search for "Illinois 200 Great Places" and found a handful of articles in newspapers. I doubt the award would pass WP:GNG, and it isn't even mentioned on the American Institute of Architects Wikipedia article. Why not seek consensus before adding it to the lead section of all 200 of the winning great places? It might save you and others a lot of time. Thank you. Magnolia677 (talk) 17:45, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

@Funarchitect: Also, are you in any way associated with this award? Magnolia677 (talk) 17:47, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

@Magnolia677: Thank you for the suggestion to seek consensus. Many awards may be considered trivial - in this case, it is a jury of architects, civic leaders and organizations allied with architecture, such as the Society of Architectural Historians. The objective is to educate on the topic of "shared architectural culture" - and to provide notable examples.

My association with the award is none. I am an architect and Illinois resident who was formerly a Board member of the Illinois component of the AIA. --Funarchitect (talk) 18:06, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

DYK for Val Gagné, Ontario

On 28 July 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Val Gagné, Ontario, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that nearly every person in Val Gagné, Ontario, died in the 1916 Matheson Fire, and the settlement was renamed to honour the heroic efforts of the parish priest? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Val Gagné, Ontario. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Val Gagné, Ontario), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:01, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Olivenhain

Hi, Magnolia. About whether to include Olivenhain as an "unincorporated community" at the San Diego County, California article: Olivenhain is actually is a neighborhood of the city of Encinitas. It has been since 1986,[3] when the city of Encinitas was incorporated to include historic Encinitas as well as Cardiff, Leukadia, and Olivenhain. That's why our article's name is Olivenhain, Encinitas, California. See also Encinitas, California. --MelanieN (talk) 21:29, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

@MelanieN: Sorry for the quick revert. While Olivenhain is under the umbrella of Encinitas' incorporation, Olivenhain as a distinct community is not incorporated. It has its own GNIS entry, where it is listed as a "populated place" (founded in 1884). I'm not if there has been some consensus about how to list unique neighborhoods. Thanks. Magnolia677 (talk) 21:49, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

How can it be under the umbrella of an incorporated city and yet unincorporated? The Olivenhain Town Council (not a governmental body, but a nonprofit organization) states on its webpage that Olivenhain "is one of five communities in the City of Encinitas". If they had a claim to a separate status you would think they would be the first to say so. I'm not clear why the GNIS entry should be the deciding reference, overruling what appears to be the community's own description of itself. Can you think of someplace where we could go for something definitive about this? --MelanieN (talk) 22:02, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Ah, here's the problem! The GNIS source you are using says it was last updated on 19-Jan-1981. The incorporation happened in 1986. So the GNIS is out of date. --MelanieN (talk) 22:09, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

@MelanieN: My head is spinning. I've just taken a Wiki adventure across the US and there really isn't any protocol for listing unique communities located within the boundaries of a larger city. Ahwatukee, Phoenix (a neighborhood of Phoenix) is listed as an unincorporated community at Maricopa County, Arizona, while Fairdale, Louisville (a neighborhood of Louisville) is listed in a big section called "communities" at Jefferson County, Kentucky. At Fulton County, Georgia, several communities that have been absorbed into other incorporated communities are listed in a section called "former unincorporated communities". I'm sure if I worked my way down the List of largest cities of U.S. states by population I could find other ways this issue has been accommodated. My bigger concern is how can Olivenhain be listed so it is easily accessible to Wikipedia's readers. I suppose if it's listed on the Encinitas article, that should do, but I like to see these place on the county articles as well. Anyway, it was nice to finally meet you. Cheers! Magnolia677 (talk) 23:03, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

It ISN'T a unique community within the boundaries of a larger city. It WAS a unique community back in 1981 when the GNIS entry was made, but it is now (since 1986) a neighborhood of an incorporated city. Just as Leukadia and Cardiff are; they used to be unincorporated areas but they aren't any more, and they aren't listed separately at the county article. There's no contradiction here, it's just a matter of an outdated source. I'm going to remove it from the "unincorporated areas" at the county page if you don't mind. --MelanieN (talk) 23:09, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Oh, I see you already removed it. Thank you! Are you OK with this outcome? --MelanieN (talk) 23:14, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

@MelanieN: The City of Encinitas disagrees, writing here that Olivenhain is "unique and geographically distinct". Olivenhain certainly appears to see itself as a unique place, with a proud history that began over 100 year ago. Regardless of whether Olivenhain is now a neighborhood of a larger city, this doesn't negate the importance of the place. And some county articles in the US do list neighborhoods. I'm trying to find a way not to simply dismiss this place. Magnolia677 (talk) 23:36, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

I’m sorry, I’m not finding where it says Olivenhain is "unique and geographically distinct". Unless you mean this? 4.9.1.1, "The City is comprised of five unique and geographically distinct communities: Old Encinitas, New Encinitas, Leucadia, Cardiff, and Olivenhain (see Figure 2-2)." (adding that there is "unincorported San Diego County" outside the city’s boundaries) Nothing there to indicate that Olivenhain is any more "unique and geographically distinct" than the other four neighborhoods. I think they were simply using the word "unique" in a general sense, meaning that each one is different from the others.

Reading further I found this: 4.9.1.2 "In the coastal communities of Leucadia, Old Encinitas, and Cardiff, development intensity generally decreases from west to east into New Encinitas and becomes semi-rural in the hills of Olivenhain." Nothing unique there. The a. Residential section doesn’t treat Olivenhain any differently from the other neighborhoods: "Olivenhain is characterized by rural, low density residential uses on large lots, considerably different than the coastal communities to the west. Olivenhain is reminiscent of a semirural or country community with a pastoral setting, a trail system, and historic buildings which reinforce its relaxed and open theme." Maps like figure 4.9-2 and 4.9-3 show Olivenhain within the city limits, with definite borders, no different from the other neighborhoods.

I don’t really understand why you feel a need to establish this one community as deserving of a separate listing at the county page, when Leucadia (founded in 1887) is just as old, and Cardiff-by-the-Sea (founded in 1911) has a long history as well. All three communities have proud histories, and all three are part of the city of Encinitas. For that matter many parts of San Diego or Los Angeles were once separate settlements or actually separate cities, but they are not now treated any differently from the rest of the city. --MelanieN (talk) 00:28, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

P.S. Heaven help us if we tried to list neighborhoods in the San Diego County article. San Diego alone has more than 100 identified neighborhoods. --MelanieN (talk) 00:33, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Insight Park

We need to expand Insight Park. See this.Zigzig20s (talk) 09:24, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Back from Mountain State

Populated the rest of the Roane County NRHP list and found Ebenezer Chapel in Marmet. BUT because I was there, Orgas, Bloomingrose and Left Hand now also have pics..Coal town guy (talk) 01:29, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

@Coal town guy: Very nice! Driving the bottoms of West Virginia is as close to paradise as you can get. Magnolia677 (talk) 09:50, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Royal Canadian Mounted Police

The Smith & Wesson Model 5946 and Smith & Wesson Model 3953 Compact were issued at the same time, like the SIG pistols, which is why I put them on the same line.

@Hotspur23: Are you able to find a source? Thanks. Magnolia677 (talk) 18:58, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

The Smith & Wesson Model Model 5946 is the standard duty pistol and the Model 3953 Compact is issued for special duties. Both went out of production in 1999 but they are apparently still in recent use with the RCMP. Pictures of S&W M3953 Compact (left) and experimental M5946TSW in Black Melonite finish and S&W TSW accessory rail (right) with RCMP-GRC property brands What you need to know about the handguns Canadian police carry | CBC News | Posted: Aug 21, 2017 5:00 AM CT, Last Updated: August 21, 2017. The RCMP's Emergency Response Team carries SIG P220R and P226R pistols with an integral accessory rail under the barrel (-R suffix to the model number). Hotspur23 (talk) 21:20, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

The Smith & Wesson Model 5946 and Smith & Wesson Model 3953 Compact pistols replaced the Smith & Wesson Model 10 Military & Police revolver in 1996. Hotspur23 (talk) 05:27, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Do not reverse cited edits

Hello, Please take time to familiarize yourself with the Government of Canada statistics pages, before reverting cited edits. HistoryCanadiana (talk) 19:22, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

An editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page—whether involving the same or different material—within a 24-hour period. An edit or a series of consecutive edits that undoes other editors' actions—whether in whole or in part—counts as a revert. Violations of the rule often attract blocks of at least 24 hours. Fourth reverts just outside the 24-hour period may also be taken as evidence of edit-warring, especially if repeated or combined with other edit-warring behavior.

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that you may be reported to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. HistoryCanadiana (talk) 19:24, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

@HistoryCanadiana: I have been explicit at Talk:Miawpukek First Nation#Reverted edit about income. I have challenged your edit, per WP:BURDEN. The obligation to provide a reliable source is now yours. The sources you have added do not support your edit, and the fact that you have since stripped from the article the links you had previously supplied to support your edit is unfortunate. If your edit is true, you need to support it with a reliable source. If the information supporting your edit exits, but is complex and difficult to find on the Government of Canada website, you need to explain this on the article talk page. Thank you again. Magnolia677 (talk) 21:31, 31 July 2018 (UTC)